[Bull]

America will forever be safe from foreign invasion with that kind of home-grown firepower.

I agree, except that's not what we were talking about. No foreign power could invade our shores for the simple fact that we have the largest navy in the world. Not only that but the size of our navy is larger than the next 9 combined. The point I was making is that no domestic insurgency has a chance in hell of going up against our military. Yeah, citizens have a wide rage of privately owned firepower. Yeah, there's even illegally owned weapons that are a damn site more powerful than hunting rifles. But none of these weapons, legally owned or otherwise, could match the sheer might of our military hadrware. You couldn't even hide, we've got night vision capabilities not only for ground troops but for drones and tanks, guided missiles, etc. Hell, the DEA uses heat vision so powerful it can differentiate between different species of plants so they can spot marijuana fields from the air. Pretty sure the military could find Wisconsin insurgents hiding in the woods. (not to mention satellites that can pinpoint an individual from space. I'm pretty sure our gov't has stuff WAY more powerful than google earth )

And in reference to the comment by Mr. Bull about imperialism...My country is not Imperialistic. That is just commie crap. Our military presence in all of those other countries is a deterrent for any aggression against our allies. It allowed our allies to rebuild after 2 world wars and a "police action" in the course of 35 years, all of which would have been lost to the forces of evil if not for us.

I am fully prepared to have a peaceful and civil discussion with you as long as you refrain from name calling. I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate me referring to a statement you make as "hillbilly nonsense" as I don't really appreciate being referred to as a commie. Especially since I live in the state directly north of yours and don't really appreciate being called hillbilly myself. That being said, you're right. Our presence in Germany and Japan post WWII was necessary to maintain stability in regions decimated by war. I don't think 50k troops in Germany almost 70 years later is necessary, though. Especially since we have the capability to transport large troop numbers from US soil to anywhere in the world within 24 hrs.

Where we get imperialistic (in my opinion) is when we impose our beliefs on other nations. I'm not for Communism, but it might work for other countries and to go to war with someone simply because their gov't is fundamentally in opposition to our own is wrong. Communism works for China. Probably because they practice Capitalism. Canada is a Democracy but they practice Socialism. It works for them. That's what I was getting at. It's in our own self interest to remove our noses from the worlds business. We'd probably not be paying so much for gasoline if we'd just stop pissing off the middle east. Just saying.

[GrandpaGreer]

America will forever be safe from foreign invasion with that kind of home-grown firepower.

I agree, except that's not what we were talking about. No foreign power could invade our shores for the simple fact that we have the largest navy in the world. Not only that but the size of our navy is larger than the next 9 combined. The point I was making is that no domestic insurgency has a chance in hell of going up against our military. Yeah, citizens have a wide rage of privately owned firepower. Yeah, there's even illegally owned weapons that are a damn site more powerful than hunting rifles. But none of these weapons, legally owned or otherwise, could match the sheer might of our military hadrware. You couldn't even hide, we've got night vision capabilities not only for ground troops but for drones and tanks, guided missiles, etc. Hell, the DEA uses heat vision so powerful it can differentiate between different species of plants so they can spot marijuana fields from the air. Pretty sure the military could find Wisconsin insurgents hiding in the woods. (not to mention satellites that can pinpoint an individual from space. I'm pretty sure our gov't has stuff WAY more powerful than google earth )

And in reference to the comment by Mr. Bull about imperialism...My country is not Imperialistic. That is just commie crap. Our military presence in all of those other countries is a deterrent for any aggression against our allies. It allowed our allies to rebuild after 2 world wars and a "police action" in the course of 35 years, all of which would have been lost to the forces of evil if not for us.

I am fully prepared to have a peaceful and civil discussion with you as long as you refrain from name calling. I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate me referring to a statement you make as "hillbilly nonsense" as I don't really appreciate being referred to as a commie. Especially since I live in the state directly north of yours and don't really appreciate being called hillbilly myself. That being said, you're right. Our presence in Germany and Japan post WWII was necessary to maintain stability in regions decimated by war. I don't think 50k troops in Germany almost 70 years later is necessary, though. Especially since we have the capability to transport large troop numbers from US soil to anywhere in the world within 24 hrs.

Where we get imperialistic (in my opinion) is when we impose our beliefs on other nations. I'm not for Communism, but it might work for other countries and to go to war with someone simply because their gov't is fundamentally in opposition to our own is wrong. Communism works for China. Probably because they practice Capitalism. Canada is a Democracy but they practice Socialism. It works for them. That's what I was getting at. It's in our own self interest to remove our noses from the worlds business. We'd probably not be paying so much for gasoline if we'd just stop pissing off the middle east. Just saying.

Directly north of me? You are either a Buckeye or a Hoosier and neither would be considered a hillbilly. Call me a hillbilly (or a Briar) and I'll own that, though, and proudly. If you think my comments are hillbilly nonsense, I'll take that as a compliment. You think I am name calling when I refer to your comments as "commie crap"? OK. I don't appreciate your name calling when you call America imperialistic. So, what ? Are you still fully prepared to be peaceful and civil? Do you think that little threat really matters here? You respond as you see fit and call it what you want, peaceful and civil or not. I think you are a communist. Perhaps you don't realize it, but making a comment like, "Communism works for China" tells me all I need to know about your ideology. It "works for China"? Really? Tell that to all the parents who had to have forced abortions, like the recent one that was 7 months along. Tell all the students and other protesters at Tienanmen Square. Tell that to the political prisoners being tortured and executed in their prisons. Tell that to the Christians being arrested and killed for daring to pray to Someone other than the government. Tell that to all the slave labor in their factories. They pretend to practice Capitalism but only the Liberals over here actually say, "Oh, look! They're like us now! How nice! Can't we all get along?"

We have never gone to war with someone "simply because their gov't is fundamentally in opposition to our own".

In what way are we imposing our beliefs on other nations? We don't tell them what to do. Those countries where we have troops actually want us there. Sure, there are a few who don't, here and there, but for the most part, we are a value add: A source of revenue (positive effect on local, regional, and national economies), free defense, opportunities for relationships with US military personnel and immigration to the greatest country on Earth, etc. For us, it is still much more preferable to have a jumping off point much closer to a trouble area if we don't have to try to move personnel and equipment from Ft. Campbell or Ft. Hood or wherever to someplace halfway around the world. A good example is Israel's attempt to deal with Azerbaijan on allowing their military to use Azerbaijani bases to stage their military strikes against sites in Iran (thanks Pres. Obama for supporting our only ally over there and not giving that plan away...oh, wait...never mind).

And do you really think that we can stop pissing off the Middle East? No matter what we do, they will hate us. Obama went over there and bowed down to the head Saudi and apologized to the Muslims for US arrogance in the past! He has insulted and acted against Israel's best interests ever since he walked into the Oval Office. They still hate us and want us to die. As to oil prices? One word...drill. Prices will drop. Stop letting the EPA and eco-terrorist groups dictate our country's energy policies. Prices will drop. Open up deep water drilling and coastal drilling and ANWR drilling. Prices will drop. Build the pipeline. Prices will drop. Open up recently designated "wild lands" to drilling. Prices will drop.

Just saying.

[KALKAM]

America will forever be safe from foreign invasion with that kind of home-grown firepower.

I agree, except that's not what we were talking about. No foreign power could invade our shores for the simple fact that we have the largest navy in the world. Not only that but the size of our navy is larger than the next 9 combined. The point I was making is that no domestic insurgency has a chance in hell of going up against our military. Yeah, citizens have a wide rage of privately owned firepower. Yeah, there's even illegally owned weapons that are a damn site more powerful than hunting rifles. But none of these weapons, legally owned or otherwise, could match the sheer might of our military hadrware. You couldn't even hide, we've got night vision capabilities not only for ground troops but for drones and tanks, guided missiles, etc. Hell, the DEA uses heat vision so powerful it can differentiate between different species of plants so they can spot marijuana fields from the air. Pretty sure the military could find Wisconsin insurgents hiding in the woods. (not to mention satellites that can pinpoint an individual from space. I'm pretty sure our gov't has stuff WAY more powerful than google earth )

Lots of commie loving south of of us....no navy required. But more importantly, there are plenty of them right here in the US. Easy way to spot them is when you hear the words "living document".

They military is mostly comprised of those that would never obey unconstitutional orders but let's pretend they would act on orders to transform the US...

Vietnam had an armed population.
Iraq had very little in the way of an armed population relative what we have.
Afghanistan didn't have our population either, but they know the terrain as well as the hillbillys know theirs.

I grew up in Brooklyn NY...I realized very early on that we had no farms, that everything we needed comes from that great expanse that the hillbillys control. And I say control because they are very mindful of outsiders passing through, and they are armed to the teeth.

Let's say 100 million of them scattered throughout the country. Toss in those of us city boys that wouldn't stand for "better red than dead" and would be sure to take some urban sympathizers with them if all is lost.

Can't enslave people that are armed...can't get people into death camps that are armed...unless they are unwilling to fight....and trust people like Soros.

Besides, even if they pinpointed someone from space, and not through intel that could have been lost so easily...if they wait months to act (ahem) not everyone would stay put in a compound.

[Bull]

Directly north of me? You are either a Buckeye or a Hoosier and neither would be considered a hillbilly.

Indiana, and that's funny because I've been called hillbilly, redneck, and hayseed. Perhaps your from an era when the geography played a factor. The point I was trying to make is you don't need to label someone in a derogatory fashion to get your point across.

I don't appreciate your name calling when you call America imperialistic. So, what ? Are you still fully prepared to be peaceful and civil? Do you think that little threat really matters here? You respond as you see fit and call it what you want, peaceful and civil or not. I think you are a communist. Perhaps you don't realize it, but making a comment like, "Communism works for China" tells me all I need to know about your ideology.

I didn't say it like that. I said "resembles an imperialistic nation". And I was only referring to the way we treat other nations. I wasn't threatening anything, I'm sorry you took it like that, I only meant you wouldn't like it if I dismissed your opinions with slander, I don't either. Given the climate in here do you blame me?

As for my comment about China, I meant only as a sovereign nation in the world community. If you want to discuss their humanitarian policies that's a different ball of wax. And as I recall China holds the majority of our foreign debt and it was a Republican who got that ball rolling.

We have never gone to war with someone "simply because their gov't is fundamentally in opposition to our own".

We sent troops into Korea essentially fighting the Chinese indirectly, kinda sorta with Vietnam as well. We helped the Afghans in the 80's when the USSR was fuking with them, Cuba but that wasn't really us that started it. There's several other examples but I can't think of them and I'm too lazy to go looking them up just to make a silly point. I'll concede that we've never gone to war "only" for that reason but it's been a factor is several.

In what way are we imposing our beliefs on other nations? We don't tell them what to do. Those countries where we have troops actually want us there. Sure, there are a few who don't, here and there, but for the most part, we are a value add: A source of revenue (positive effect on local, regional, and national economies), free defense, opportunities for relationships with US military personnel and immigration to the greatest country on Earth, etc.

Oh boy, most recently .. democracy in Afganastan when all we went there to do was crush bin laden, democracy in Iraq when we were just looking for WMD's and oil, in fact we've been screwing around in the middle east since ww2. They actually used to like us then. And yeah, it's going to take several decades to get back to good terms with the majority of that region. IMO, our first step is leaving them the fuk alone when their citizens revolt against their gov't regimes. We almost stayed out of Libia but we had to throw bombs at them so we'd look tough. I'm a believer in Teddy Roosevelt's saying "speak softly but carry a big stick" when it comes to foreign policy. I mean we've got the bomb, we wouldn't have to drop a full blown nuclear warhead but why not hit someone with an atom bomb like we dropped on Japan? or at least make whoever think we'll do it.

Of course the countries we have troops in want them, it's a revenue stream. We pay these soldiers and they spend it in those countries. I'd like the US to return to pre ww2 foreign policies of minding our own business. The UN is in place to police the world, it's not in our best interests to do so. We behave sometimes like a vigilante.

As to oil prices, I've been reading a lot of different stuff from both sides and the middle about why oil's so expensive. I'll just post a couple links because I really don't want to get into it too deep.

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Gas-Prices/S ... -High.html
http://www.nrdc.org/energy/gasprices/?g ... KgodWBA_2w


basically, oil is traded on the world market, we've been drilling more than we have in a decade, our oil companies aren't going to sell it at home cheap when they can make 9x that shipping it to Asia, we can't produce enough oil to effect the world market, and these wallstreet fukers speculating on futures are raising prices too. Did you know that a lot of the investment capital that used to go to the housing market and business stocks are now being invested in oil futures? That's part of the reason oil's so expensive, there's many more factors to consider.

[crankyhead]

What am I supposed to refute dumba$$? That entire statement was nothing but slander. WTFO didn't make any counter arguments, just personal slams. I think you guys need to huddle up and reevaluate your game plan here. That is if you homos can keep your hands off each other's a$$es.

[Liberals]

What am I supposed to refute dumba$$? That entire statement was nothing but slander. WTFO didn't make any counter arguments, just personal slams. I think you guys need to huddle up and reevaluate your game plan here. That is if you homos can keep your hands off each other's a$$es.

there you go with the homophobia again crankless

[KALKAM]

, democracy in Iraq when we were just looking for WMD's and oil, in fact we've been screwing around in the middle east since ww2. They actually used to like us then. And yeah, it's going to take several decades to get back to good terms with the majority of that region. IMO, our first step is leaving them the fuk alone when their citizens revolt against their gov't regimes. We almost stayed out of Libia but we had to throw bombs at them so we'd look tough. I'm a believer in Teddy Roosevelt's saying "speak softly but carry a big stick" when it comes to foreign policy. I mean we've got the bomb, we wouldn't have to drop a full blown nuclear warhead but why not hit someone with an atom bomb like we dropped on Japan? or at least make whoever think we'll do it.

"Democracy" and "WMDs" were just political rhetoric regarding Iraq. The reality was, and continues to be, keeping Iran away from Saudi Arabia.

We both agreed to keep our Navy in the gulf to secure the oil...the Saudis didn't like the secularist communists much.

We supported Saddam simply because he was the buffer between Saudi Arabia and Iran. Iran's nutty regime believes in taking the holiest sites in Islam, having a little Armageddon....can't let that just happen.

Following Desert Storm we got stuck in one of our never ending "containment" deals. UBL and his boys wanted to be the defenders of the land of Mecca and Medina...and they hated a non-Muslim military acting as the defenders. It's why they declared war on us.

The choices we had:

1-Stay and wait

2-Break treaty

3-Remove reason for being there and get out of the land "of the 2 mosques".

"Stay and wait" was risky...an arab spring, some civil unrest, a soldier cracks and shoots a Saudi and you have a war with every Muslim on Earth...not just the radicals...it's in the quran and quite clear what happens.

"Break treaty"...we all know the risks there

Choice 3 I agree with...what Bush did do wrong and it made me suspect he actually is religious and too compassionate as a war president is he screwed up by trying to take Saddam out with a decapitation strike. Our plan was to take the forward conscripts as POWs again, except this time they would secure the country, take orders from us and this would have changed the entire dynamic. But after the decap attempt we had to wait and see if it worked...but we had to roll the ground troops in right away as everyone knew the war began.

Had we not gone that route we would have unleashed an air campaign that would have pinned the ground troops in place until we rolled up on them and they surrendered. Because we didn't they just disappeared.

The military that was left was argued to be loyal to Saddam so the were dissolved. This was the screw up.

We should have had our troops set up at the Iranian border...the Iraqis in charge of security, not us.

Smack dab between Iraq and Afghanistan is Iran...that was the end game. I fully support that plan...too bad Bush wanted to spare so many lives and try and end the war with one shot.

I agree with you about speak silently...I would have said little and just went for the throat. Iran would be under new management....and people would be too afraid of us to openly criticize us.

More importantly, and this never ceased to amaze me was how many asked "Why do they hate us?"

I couldn't care less....the only question was "Why aren't they afraid of us and how do we teach them that they should fear us and not Allah?". Our wrath is real...

Japan was a nation of suicide bombers...ready to fight to the last man, woman, and child....we have occupied them ever since with relative ease. Worked before...

[Bull]

"Democracy" and "WMDs" were just political rhetoric regarding Iraq.

Yeah I know, that's all I was saying.

We supported Saddam simply because he was the buffer between Saudi Arabia and Iran. Iran's nutty regime believes in taking the holiest sites in Islam, having a little Armageddon....can't let that just happen.

I'm pretty sure we placed Saddam in power way back when .. or helped him obtain it anyway. Before all that. The US does that a lot. Puts a dictator in power then years later wages a campaign to remove him from power like we're the champions of good.

I totally agree with the rest of your post ... once we were there we had only one correct course of action.

[crankyhead]

there you go with the homophobia again crankless

Encouraging you to change your tactics is homophobia?

[WTFO]

troll