[crankyhead]

Seriously though, how is quoting you in context considered putting words in your mouth, or a misrepresentation of your position?

Also, I watched the first minute or so of your video, and I'm curious, are you under the impression that you're a liberal or something?

Cheers

[WTFO]

For the last time, you continue to follow a simplistic position against me where you mistate my position that being against islamic teachings means I'm against all muslims.

Here's what you've said and my responses: (underlining the specific lies/mistatements so even a moron can follow)

Cranky’s lie: You paint all muslims with the same 'terrorist' brush

My response: Let me repeat myself, cranky because you are apparently too blinded by your hate and ignorance to read what I continue to write. I have never stated (nor do I believe) that ALL muslims are terrorists like you keep saying (yet another logic fallacy of 'Argument Ad Nauseam' or the repetition of a falsehood in hopes that someone will believe your BS because you keep saying it). What I have specifically pointed out are the versus in the qur'an and hadiths that teach hate, mistreatment of women, etc.

Cranky’s lie: Thank goodness for that, because there's over a billion muslims. If they all wanted you and me and the rest of the non muslims dead, how long do you think that would take? 20 minutes? 30 minutes?

My response: This pathetic argument you submit is based solely on the belief that all muslims follow the extreme teachings included in the qur'an and hadiths. I've never stated that opinion nor do I believe it.

Cranky's lie: Your original post asked 5 yes or no questions and then made the assertion that if you answered yes to those questions, that you "stand against Islam". Who or what is Islam if it's not all muslims?

My response: Islam certainly does not imply "all muslims". I have issues with the Catholic church but that doesn't mean I have a problem with all Catholics. I have serious issues with unions but not all union members. You make a simplistic argument to support your lies about my position. However, mature people with even a little intelligence can see that your assertions on my position are completely BS.

Put simply (again), being against the violent teachings of islam does not mean I'm against muslims that don't follow the violent teachings.

If you still don't understand, then you are either a complete idiot or you've smoked way too much pot. Either way, it's pointless to discuss any further.

As far as the video, thanks for your typical closed-minded liberal efforts. You watched the "first minute or so" and jump to an incorrect conclusion/question.

If you watch the whole thing and are actually honest with yourself, you'll see that ignorant arguments put forth by the liberal female in the video are remarkably similar to the arguments you brought to this thread. However, I neither expect a narrow-minded, cloud-skipping, tofu-farting liberal like you to either be open to listening to the other side nor being honest about any topic. You've proven you're incapable of that multiple times.

So long.

[WTFO]

"islam is a religion of peace" is exactly what all the political correct morons keep saying right? Well, here's a link to qur'anic versus that teach violence: Not too many, just 530:

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran ... /long.html

[WTFO]

The political correct crowd also ignores how islam tells its followers to treat their women.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/women/long.html

[crankyhead]

Islam certainly does not imply "all muslims".

There, we have it. The crux of the debate. You don't know what the word Islam means, or what you're implying when you say things like:

If you said yes to most or all of these...Congratulations! You stand against Islam.

From dictionnary.com:

Is·lam   [is-lahm, iz-, is-luhm, iz-]
noun
1. the religious faith of Muslims, based on the words and religious system founded by the prophet Muhammad and taught by the Koran, the basic principle of which is absolute submission to a unique and personal god, Allah.
2. the whole body of Muslim believers, their civilization, and the countries in which theirs is the dominant religion.

You can see how someone familiar with the word and it's meaning would infer that you are a xenophobe, when in fact, you're just ignorant. At the very least, your initial argument is, a fallacy of composition, whether or not that was your intention.

I did take you up on your suggestion that I read "The politically incorrect guide to Islam (and the Crusades)" Initially I wasn't going to do so, but then as I was browsing some of the other topics in this forum I had noticed that you keep making reference to it, so I thought, 'Well, if he's going to keep using a singular source of information to formulate his arguments (if you can call them arguments) I might as well familiarize myself with the book'. So I downloaded the pdf and, although I haven't made my way through the entire text, I have found it rather childish in it's presentation. What with all the side bars full of unsupported facts, and the whole Jesus vs. Mohammed comparisons. It reads at a 6th grade level. I'm actually surprised that there aren't more pictures. Now, I'll admit, I haven't read it cover to cover, I only downloaded it yesterday, but I'll do my best to remain objective as I complete it.

Anyway, then I got to thinking, who is this Robert Spencer? Y'know, the author? What's this guy all about?

So, like any critical thinker, I set out to find some secondary sources of information, corroborating or otherwise, before I passed any kind of judgement on whether or not I should take him seriously. This is what is commonly referred to as 'research'. (As opposed to just reading one book, and then pretending you're an authority on the subject.) I know that this seems like a lot of work to you WTFO, and you probably feel like it gets in the way of you 'proving' your point, as it takes away from the time you have available to hurl insults at people instead of having an actual conversation, but, as it turns out, this is actually how intelligent people formulate arguments and opinions in the academic world. Here's some interesting facts about the man that I discovered:

Before he became a catholic and an author, in his youth , he was not only an atheist, but a fervent communist. He was even employed by Bob Avakian at Revolution books in NYC. He wrote his first book on Islam in 2002. One might argue that the events of 9/11 might have brought him closer to god, but one could also argue that his writing career is capitalizing on the fear associated with those events. Financially, he's done quite well for himself, y'know. Either way, his motivations are, at the very least, questionable.

Another thing you'll discover about him is that he has an M.A. in religious studies from UNC. When I read this, I though, ok, maybe this guy is for real. But then later, on Spencer's own website, I discovered this quote by him when he was discussing his personal wikipedia page.

It's false that I have no academic training in Islamic studies. I just don't have a degree in it.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/03/wikip ... encer.html

Now it's one thing to have an opinion, everyone is entitled to theirs, but to pretend to be an authority on a subject without having bothered to achieve a level of education that would lend you the necessary credibility, is akin to going to your proctologist to have brain surgery. (In your case however, this doctor conundrum might not be a problem.) To be seriously considered an expert in the academic world, one must at least possess basic academic education in the field in which they are claiming expertise. In order to be thought of as a scholar, one must have published numerous peer-reviewed articles in journals of good repute, said articles being subjected to critique by established authorities before being accepted. Spencer meets none of these criteria. So, as much as I'd like to give Spencer's opinions the benefit of the doubt, they are only opinions.

I'd like to conclude by telling you that you should take greater care choosing which horse you attach your cart to. Some of them are just overgrown donkeys.

Cheers.

[crankyhead]

Oh yeah almost forgot...

First of all, how am I misrepresenting your position, or putting words in your mouth, by quoting you?

Seriously though, how is quoting you in context considered putting words in your mouth, or a misrepresentation of your position?

[WTFO]

Thanks for once again proving my point:

you're an idiot.

I'm done with stupid people like you.

[crankyhead]

...that's okay, because I know what you are really trying to say. Your repeated attempts to not discuss Islam is because you know I'm 100% correct in every one of my statements about it. You can't defend it and your too much of a pig-headed ass to admit it. So I accept your resistance for what it is, surrender... you tried to shut down the discussion because you were too much of a coward to talk about their points... You develop your positions and arguments just like a child, you base them on very limited knowledge and when someone challenges you on your BS you cover your ears screaming LALALALA, I won't talk to you any more....

[WTFO]

Thanks, I still stand by that statement. Your repeated attempts to avoid discussing the topic of this thread show that you are in fact surrendering. You have only addressed islamic teachings once using qur'anic verses, which I put into context with the verses surrounding them and showed they do not support peace for non-muslims.

Your initial posts avoided islam by attacking christianity. Now you want to argue the definition of islam. I posted my context and an accurate statement that islam does not equal ALL muslims the same way that Christianity does not equal ALL christians. People and theology are separate. Regardless, this is still another attempt of avioding discussing a topic that you cannot defend. Instead, you attempt to attack me, which is why you are not worth my time. However, just in case you get the testicular fortitude to defend the actual topic of this thread, they are as follows:

1. Do you support the separation of church and state? Islam teaches they should be the same.

2. Do you support women's rights? Islam supports the suppression and abuse of women.

3. Do you support the rights of gays and lesbians? Islam teaches killing of gays.

4. Do you stand against institutionalized descrimination and murder against minorities? Islam teaches muslims to be hostile/violent to non-muslims.

5. Do you oppose child marraiges and pedophilia? Islam teaches that it is okay to marry girls as young as 6 (helps with keeping the women as property).

It really isn't that hard to discuss these topics so I can only assume that the quote of mine you used stating your avoiding the subject equals surrender on the points I've posted is still valid.

[crankyhead]

Can't even throw a hissy fit and storm off in a huff cohesively huh? Color me surprised.