Bull wrote:You know what, I remember now why I chose to post a stupid song instead of arguing this. You see things as black and white (metaphorically) where there's many shades of gray between.
I don't consider most things in "black and white", I examine many things by right and wrong. From that perspective things are much more clear.
Bull wrote:I do not consider myself liberal but I agree with several liberal viewpoints. Here, you tell me .......
blah blah blah.
That's all very interesting and if I get some time I'd enjoy discussing these topics. However, they have absolutely nothing to do with this thread's topic (the types of liberals and the progressive plantation, in case you forgot). If you don't have the courage to debate me on my positions, then don't post in this thread. I get tired of liberal tactics of distraction.
Bull wrote:Oh and I caught your reply while I was typing this, I don't think we need a play by play, we can all read. How would you like it if I made a comparison like that about conservatives and the nazis? Don't think you'd jump right in all friendly and shyt and start a discussion. Your posting is inflammatory not to mention disrespectful. The enslavement of a people is not a basis for comparison to a political philosophy. That's all I'm going to say about it.
My position is a valid analogy of how the democratic machine operates to create victims and farm them for votes. The modern chains are welfare and entitlement programs, and the modern cotton is democratic votes. If that offends you, tough. I will not shy away from the truth because it might offend your tender sensibilities. If you don't want to discuss the comparison, fine, don't. But in that case, jump out of this thread so an honest debate can occur instead of flooding it with unrelated data or ignorant music videos.
Also, thank you ever so much for throwing out that tired liberal lie that conservatives and nazis are similar. Here is how I respond to that: the fact is that modern day liberals and progressives have a lot in common with nazi Germany. Want proof? Here you go: (I underlined a few key points for easy reading)
LIBERALS and NAZIS
Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:35:08 AM by Capitalism2003
"We ask that the government undertake the obligation
above all of providing citizens with adequate opportunity for employment
and earning a living. The activities of the individual must not be allowed to clash with the interests of the community
, but must take place within its confines and be for the good of all. Therefore, we demand: … an end to the power of the financial interests. We demand profit sharing in big business
. We demand a broad extension of care for the aged
. We demand … the greatest possible consideration of small business in the purchases of national, state, and municipal governments. In order to make possible to every capable and industrious [citizen] the attainment of higher education and thus the achievement of a post of leadership, the government must provide an all-around enlargement of our entire system of public education
… We demand the education at government expense of gifted children of poor parents
… The government must undertake the improvement of public health – by protecting mother and child, by prohibiting child labor … by the greatest possible support for all clubs concerned with the physical education of youth. We combat the … materialistic spirit within and without us
, and are convinced that a permanent recovery of our people can only proceed from within on the foundation of the common good before the individual good
– From the political program of the Nazi Party, adopted in Munich, February 24, 1920
The similarities between the National Socialist (Nazi) platform and the modern liberal/socialist agenda are truely astonishing. Nationalization of business, forced profit sharing, outlawing all profits during wartime, abolition of all income not earned directly from work (via high capital gains/inheritance taxes), the state shall provide a "livelihood for its citizens", old age insurance funded by government, price caps, price controls, rent controls, laws against speculation.."communal" rent free living areas, an end to the "materialistic" world order, free higher education focusing on "civic affairs" (humanities, political science--the left's favorite (and useless) subjects to learn), labor laws, censorship against news media that don't tow the line (libs demanding "fairness doctrine, increased penalties/regulation against clear channel, newscorp, etc)...bottom line, "common good..."common interest" before individual interest, and a strong central government to make these goals come true...mainly through economic coercion and force. The left wing parties of TODAY condemn individual achievement at every turn. Their aim is to remove every reason for individuals to excel in this society, and to create a class of dependent people subservient to the almighty state. They justify economic oppression in the name of "social justice" or the promoting "common good." Much like the Nazis, they support extreme infringements on personal liberties. Like the Nazis, they favor MASSIVE taxation, massive regulation, and often support government takeover of entire industries (Hellarycare in 92, etc
No further words are necessary...just read closely.
"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system
for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." --Adolf Hitler
(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)
[Below is the 25 of the NSDAP Program - This is basically the National Socialist German Workers Party Platform. It included measures that in effect would redistribute income and war profits, profit-sharing with large industries, nationalization of trusts, extensive development of old-age pension (just like FDRs Social Security Program), and free education. Clearly this demonstrates Hitler was indeed a left winger and here is startling proof
The 25 points of the NSDAP Program were composed by Adolf Hitler and Anton Drexler. They were publically presented on 24 February 1920 "to a crowd of almost two thousand and every single point was accepted amid jubilant approval." (Mein Kampf, Volume II, Chapter I) Hitler explained their purpose in the fifth chapter of the second volume of Mein Kampf:
[T]he program of the new movement was summed up in a few guiding principles, twenty-five in all. They were devised to give, primarily to the man of the people, a rough picture of the movement's aims. They are in a sense a political creed, which on the one hand recruits for the movement and on the other is suited to unite and weld together by a commonly recognized obligation those who have been recruited.
Hitler was intent on having a community of mutual interest that desired mutual success instead of one that was divided over the control of money or differing values.
THE COMMON INTEREST BEFORE SELF-INTEREST - THAT IS THE SPIRIT OF THE PROGRAM. BREAKING OF THE THRALDOM OF INDIVIDUAL INTEREST - THAT IS THE KERNEL OF NATIONAL SOCIALISM.
In these straightforward statements of intent, Hitler translated his ideology into a plan of action which would prove its popularity with the German people throughout the coming years. For many, the abruptness of its departure from the tradition of politics as practiced in the western world was as much of a shock as its liberal nature and foresight of the emerging problems of western democracy.
The Programme of the German Workers' Party is designed to be of limited duration. The leaders have no intention, once the aims announced in it have been achieved, of establishing fresh ones, merely in order to increase, artificially, the discontent of the masses and so ensure the continued existence of the Party.
1. We demand the union of all Germany in a Greater Germany on the basis of the right of national self-determination.
2. We demand equality of rights for the German people in its dealings with other nations, and the revocation of the peace treaties of Versailles and Saint-Germain.
3. We demand land and territory (colonies) to feed our people and to settle our surplus population.
4. Only members of the nation may be citizens of the State. Only those of German blood, whatever be their creed, may be members of the nation. Accordingly, no Jew may be a member of the nation.
5. Non-citizens may live in Germany only as guests and must be subject to laws for aliens.
6. The right to vote on the State's government and legislation shall be enjoyed by the citizens of the State alone. We demand therefore that all official appointments, of whatever kind, whether in the Reich, in the states or in the smaller localities, shall be held by none but citizens.
We oppose the corrupting parliamentary custom of filling posts merely in accordance with party considerations, and without reference to character or abilities.
7. We demand that the State shall make it its primary duty to provide a livelihood for its citizens
. If it should prove impossible to feed the entire population, foreign nationals (non-citizens) must be deported from the Reich.
8. All non-German immigration must be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans who entered Germany after 2 August 1914 shall be required to leave the Reich forthwith.
9. All citizens shall have equal rights and duties.
10. It must be the first duty of every citizen to perform physical or mental work. The activities of the individual must not clash with the general interest
, but must proceed within the framework of the community and be for the general good
We demand therefore:
11. The abolition of incomes unearned by work
The breaking of the slavery of interest
12. In view of the enormous sacrifices of life and property demanded of a nation by any war, personal enrichment from war must be regarded as a crime against the nation. We demand therefore the ruthless confiscation of all war profits
13. We demand the nationalization of all businesses which have been formed into corporations
14. We demand profit-sharing in large industrial enterprises
15. We demand the extensive development of insurance for old age
16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a healthy middle class, the immediate communalizing of big department stores, and their lease at a cheap rate to small traders, and that the utmost consideration shall be shown to all small traders in the placing of State and municiple orders.
17. We demand a land reform suitable to our national requirements, the passing of a law for the expropriation of land for communal purposes without compensation
; the abolition of ground rent, and the prohibition of all speculation in land. *
18. We demand the ruthless prosecution of those whose activities are injurious to the common interest
. Common criminals, usurers, profiteers
, etc., must be punished with death, whatever their creed or race.
19. We demand that Roman Law, which serves a materialistic world order, be replaced by a German common law.
20. The State must consider a thorough reconstruction of our national system of education
(with the aim of opening up to every able and hard-working German the possibility of higher education and of thus obtaining advancement). The curricula of all educational establishments must be brought into line with the requirements of practical life. The aim of the school must be to give the pupil, beginning with the first sign of intelligence, a grasp of the nation of the State (through the study of civic affairs). We demand the education of gifted children of poor parents
, whatever their class or occupation, at the expense of the State
21. The State must ensure that the nation's health standards are raised by protecting mothers and infants, by prohibiting child labor, by promoting physical strength through legislation providing for compulsory gymnastics and sports
, and by the extensive support of clubs engaged in the physical training of youth.
22. We demand the abolition of the mercenary army and the foundation of a people's army.
23. We demand legal warfare on deliberate political mendacity and its dissemination in the press
. To facilitate the creation of a German national press we demand:
(a) that all editors of, and contributors to newspapers appearing in the German language must be members of the nation; (b) that no non-German newspapers may appear without the express permission of the State. They must not be printed in the German language; (c) that non-Germans shall be prohibited by law from participating financially in or influencing German newspapers, and that the penalty for contravening such a law shall be the suppression of any such newspaper, and the immediate deportation of the non-Germans involved.
The publishing of papers which are not conducive to the national welfare must be forbidden
. We demand the legal prosecution of all those tendencies in art and literature which corrupt our national life, and the suppression of cultural events which violate this demand.
24. We demand freedom for all religious denominations in the State, provided they do not threaten its existence not offend the moral feelings of the German race.
The Party, as such, stands for positive Christianity, but does not commit itself to any particular denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and without us, and is convinced that our nation can achieve permanent health only from within on the basis of the principle: The common interest before self-interest.
25. To put the whole of this programme into effect, we demand the creation of a strong central state power
for the Reich; the unconditional authority of the political central Parliament over the entire Reich and its organizations; and the formation of Corporations based on estate and occupation for the purpose of carrying out the general legislation passed by the Reich in the various German states.
The leaders of the Party promise to work ruthlessly -- if need be to sacrifice their very lives -- to translate this programme into action. ___________________________________________-
As you can see, the official Nazi platform is an almost word for word copy of what leftist parties around the globe are promoting TODAY. Astonishing really.http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1141684/posts
Now, if the (accurate) comparison between the types of liberals and where they fit on the slave plantation analogy offended and upset you, I imagine these facts will really raise your blood-pressure.
Bull wrote:As for the other thing .. didn't cranky quote you as saying you dropped out of high school in 10th grade?
Cranky is a lying troll. I never said that. It's just further evidence why he isn't worth my time.
Bull wrote:and then you said something about almost having a masters in aerospace or some shyt? and now you're in the airforce for damn near 20 yrs while your doing this?
Working on my Master's while serving in the AF, yes.
Bull wrote:And you're on here talking hate with a bunch of teenagers with impressionable minds who probably look up to you if you've told them you're in the military. And I'm supposed to believe this? How about actions speak louder than words? I came in here, read what you'd wrote, posted a silly song in response, and on another thread you attacked me for having a different point of view than you do.
I don't talk about hate. I tell the truth based on facts and evidence. I've backed up my positions at every turn. Also, why do you liberals on this site always feel the need to attempt to condescend others here who disagree with you? From the discussions I've had with conservatives on this site, they are all well educated adults that are tired of liberal BS. I have not engaged with "teenagers with impressionable minds" on the conservative side. However, it's clear that several of the liberals on this site would fit in that category based on the immature belief systems they cling so desparately to. I am not a role model on this site, I'm a contributing member. Me and the other conservatives on this site have mutual respect but nobody is "looking up" to other members.
Honestly, I don't give a damn if you believe that I serve or not. Some random online hater's opinion of me doesn't cost me a second of sleep. As for your crying about me blasting your addition to a stupid song in my thread, oh well, life is tough-get a helmet. I serve in the military, our mission is to support and defend the US Constitution. We do that by killing enemies and making large holes in their countries. Do you really expect me to be gentle in my interactions online as to not offend some whiny liberal? Sorry, that's not how I work. If I offend you and you can't handle it, then ignore my posts and don't engage. It's simply that easy. And make no mistake, I didn't go after you in the other thread because you have a "different point of view", I went after you because your point of view was ignorant.
Bull wrote:Now, before you respond to anything in this post I want you to go back through it and find one derogatory statement I made about you. Finished? I count 3 in your last post. I did not retaliate. You think we can all put on our big boy pants now and stop acting like children?
"Obama repeals don't ask don't tell and now you and BillyBob don't have to hide your forbidden love any longer"
"you keep spewing racist comments" (BTW, you still haven't shown one bit of evidence of that lie)
"Get it together retard"
"if you homos can keep your hands off each other's a$$es"
"you got some issues Retard. Does your boyfriend know you talk to other men like that? I bet you're mommy didn't breast feed you enough as a child then daddy found out he could sneak into your room at night and touch you in your naughty hole huh? Well it's ok, retard. A few years of therapy and some anger management should help you get over your homophobia and accept yourself as a gay man. Might help with your underlying racism too.
Remember, wash your hands with soap and water after you get done fingering your boyfriend's honeypot. Wouldn't want to get sick and miss work.
"You're right there with the rest of these mindless children just flinging insults"
"Yeah, because I fukin despise bullies. I've dealt with your kind all my life"
"So fuk you"
"steer it back to a discussion. Hard to do when there's no adults present"
"there's no fukin way your dumbass was ever in the military, no soldier of any US military branch would ever be as disrespectful as you are to another human being" (No we aren't disrespectful of other human beings, we just kill them. BTW, I'm an Airman, not a soldier)
"you can go fuk yourself"
Oh, wait. You asked me to "find one derogatory statement", not 11. I guess all my military experience has made me always look to go above and beyond.
Let me also point out this very interesting comment by you:
"I actually have neighbors down the street who are gay. Nicest guys you'd ever meet."
Wow, that makes you sound so accepting of the gay lifestyle. How admirable. However, I wonder what your neighbors would think of how you characterized gay life in the attacks you have spewed here against me and other members. You think that your words might offend them? Look at the words you used and what it says about your views on homosexuality. That certainly could be construed as homophobia. I bet they'd even consider you to be a bully against gays with that kind of attack (hey, didn't you say you go after bullies? Always remember to fix yourself first)
Bottom line: don't try to take the high road when you're acting like a hateful troll. It's pathetic and we can all see what kind of a low-life you really are. And you really shouldn't get your panties in a bunch when someone slaps you back.
You want to have a respectful discussion, fine. Then step up to the plate and stop typing misspelled vulgarity every 5 words. Make a rational attempt at discussing the topic instead of crying "racism" when it doesn't exist (in case you were too lazy to read it, the liberal plantation is not based on race, it's based on entitlement spending).